i think one of the other panelists mentioned a quote from the fbi director. nec the same concerns in talking about in the commercial sphere, to. he said basically every company is being hacked one way or another and it's not a question of when they will be hacked, is when it will happen again. that might be a pessimistic view of how our candy. that certainly been. my only point -- the only other point i want to make on commercial data is that she's the recent report, issued by verizon about data breach investigations that just that at least in recent years, large numbers of serious cyberchurches have been aimed at taking authentication credentials. .. >> within that category, there's computer network attacks, defensive response, so namely, your system's under attack somehow, your system's infiltrated, and, perhaps, you have the capacity to respond back so this would be a retaliatory strike of some nature. with that in mind, i thought we could talk about ways in which, and some of the other panelists touched on this, ways in which these offensive tools are use